CITR+Ch+19

Chapter 19 notes by Ellen Park He goes to the Wicker Bar in the Seton Hotel to meet Carl Luce. He saids that he doesn't like to go there that much because there are too many phonies. When Carl gets there, Holden tells a background story of Carl. Holden tries to talk about sex to Luce, but he refuses to talk about it and ignores Holden's questions. Carl mentions that he is seeing a Chinese girl and Holden starts to get excited thinking about Eastern Philosophy. Holden tries to get Carl talking about sex, but Carl doesn't give in to Holden's annoying questions. Holden then thinks that Carl is a phony for not wanting to anser questions about himself. Carl then tells Holden that is father can help Holden because he seems troubled. Carl pays the check and leaves after seeing that their conversations weren't going to go anywhere.

Chapter 19 Notes: By Clare D.:
Plot Summary:
 * In the Wicker Bar, located in the Seton Hotel, Holden describes Carl Luce
 * Luce is three years older than Holden and now a student at Columbia University, at the Whooton school Luce talked to the other boys about sex
 * Holden seems to like Luce, even though he thinks he is a phony
 * When he gets there Luce treats Holden coolly, saying he doesn't have much time to talk
 * Holden, petulantly, questions Luce about sex, Luce refuses to answer his questions, but he does not stop asking
 * Luce does tell Holden that he has been seeing an older Chinese woman, and this inspires many inappropriate questions from Holden
 * Luce suggests seeing a psychoanalyst like his father for Holden, because he is acting so odd
 * Holden continues to ask annoying questions, but now they are about if Luce was ever analyzed by his father
 * Annoyed by Holden juvenile questions and behavior Carl Luce leaves

Chapter 19 by Taylor Wooley pd4
 * The Wicker Bar is located in the swanky Seton Hotel
 * Holden doesn't go there as much anymore because it's got "phonies
 * two French girls do an entertaining act there.
 * So Holden gets there early, has a few scotch and sodas, and listens to the guy next to him trying to work his date by telling her she's got "aristocratic hands."
 * Carl shows up, and Holden gives us the backstory: Luce was supposed to be his student adviser at Whooton, but all he did was give all the boys talks about sex and who was a "flit" (i.e., who was gay). According to Luce, nearly everyone was.
 * This led Holden to believe that, perhaps, Luce himself was gay. Well, that, and his habit of "goosing" people and leaving the door open when he went to the bathroom.
 * Ookay. Seems reasonable.
 * Luce sits down at the bar, says he can only stay a few minutes, and orders a dry martini.
 * Holden asks Luce about sex
 * Luce doesn't want to answer Holdens questions about his sex life, instead they end up talking about a Chinese "sculptress" in "the Village" that Luce is dating
 * Holden gets excited about the idea that "Eastern philosophy" sees sex as a spiritual and physical experience
 * Holden keeps pushing the conversation of sex, but Luce continues to refuse talking about the topic
 * Holden hates how Luce is the kind of the guy who wants everybody to listen to him talk about other people's personal lives, but refuses to answer questions about himself (a phonie)
 * Luce tells Holden he's immature.
 * Carl says his father would help Holden recognize the patterns in his mind
 * Luce pays his check and says he's got to go, even though Holden asks him to stay for another drink. After he's gone, Holden says he's "strictly a pain in the ass."

• The Wicker Bar is located in the swanky Seton Hotel. Holden doesn't go there as much anymore because it's got phonies. • Holden gets there early, has a few scotch and sodas, and listens to the guy next to him trying to work his date by telling her she's got "aristocratic hands." • Carl shows up, and Holden gives us the backstory: Luce was supposed to be his student adviser at Whooton, but all he did was give all the boys talks about sex and who was gay.According to Luce, nearly everyone was. • Holden believes that maybe Luce himself was gay. Has habit of "goosing" people and leaving the door open when he went to the bathroom. • Luce sits down at the bar, says he can only stay a few minutes, and orders a dry martini. • He asks right away about Carl's sex life, college major, and other things • Luce doesn't want to play that game, but they end up talking about a Chinese "sculptress" in "the Village" that Luce is dating, who is in her late thirties. • Holden asks him a lot of questions about older women and Eastern philosophy, but Carl refuses to answer any of these "typical Caulfield questions." • When Holden gets excited about the idea that "Eastern philosophy" sees sex as a spiritual and physical experience, Carl shushes him and Holden admits that he does sometimes get too loud when he's excited He's confused about how sex should be that way, but how he can't make it feel that way with every girl. As Holden continues to press the issue, Luce refuses to talk about it further. • Holden hates how Luce is the kind of the guy who wants everybody to listen to him talk about other people's personal lives, but refuses to answer questions about himself. And he always has to be the big shot. • Luce tells Holden he's immature. • Holden agrees. He says the problem is that he can't get really intimate with a girl that he likes a lot. He asks what Carl's father (would think about that. • Carl says his father would help Holden recognize the patterns in his mind, which is what he did for Carl.  • Luce pays his check and says he's got to go, even though Holden asks him to stay for another drink. After he's gone, Holden says he's "strictly a pain in the ass." (MD NUR)

Holden meets Carl Luce at the Wicker Bar. Carl Luce used to gossip about people who were "flits" (homosexuals) and would tell which actors were actually gay. Holden claims that Carl was a bit "flitty" himself. When Carl arrives, he asks Holden when he is going to grow up, and is not amused by Holden's jokes. Carl is annoyed that he is having a "typical Caulfield conversation" about sex. Carl admits that he is seeing an older woman in the Village who is a sculptress from China. Holden asks questions that are too personal about Carl's sex life with his girlfriend until Carl insists that he drop the subject. Carl reminds him that the last time he saw Holden he told him to go see his father, a psychiatrist. (Isabella L)
 * Ch 19 Short Notes**

Chapter 19 Notes (revised)

At the Wicker Bar, in the Seton Hotel, Holden waits for an old friend from the Whooton School. While he waits he orders a few scotch and sodas. Holden admits he finds Carl Luce (his friend) kind of amusing, while still thinking he is a phony. When Carl arrives, he orders a dry martini and they talk about who was gay at the Whooton School. Holden secretly suspects that Luce is gay himself but doesn't say anything to him about it. Holden then pesters Carl about sex and his sex life with this Chinese "sculptress" Carl had been dating. Carl doesn't answer these "typical Caulfield questions" and tells Holden to drop the subject. Carl also mentions the fact Carl should be psychoanalyzed. Offended, Holden asked if Carl's father ever had did any analysis's on him. Luce, annoyed, pays for his drink and declines Holden's offer to stay for a few more drinks. (Alexis Thayer)

Olivia kriwasch-Period 8


 * At the Wicker Bar, in the Seton Hotel, Holden thinks about Carl
 * Carl is three years older than him and goes to columbia University
 * Carl used to be very educated about sex, and would tell other boys about it
 * Holden finds Carl funny
 * When Carl gets there, Holden presses him with questions about sex
 * Carl refuses to talk about the subject, and tells him he should be psychoanalyzed
 * Holden remembers that Carl’s father is a psychoanalyst
 * Carl doesn’t answer when asked if his father ever analyzed him
 * Carl gets annoyed with Holden and leaves the bar

Shihab P. =__**Summary**__=
 * **While at the Wicker Bar, Holden begins to think about Carl Luce.**
 * ** Luce is a student of the Columbia University, and he is 3 years older than Holden. **
 * ** In the past, Luce used to tell everyone about sex. **
 * ** Holden says that he finds Luce to be amusing, despite him being a phony. **
 * **When Luce arrives he is calm, but Holden asks him questions about sex.**
 * **Luce refuses to be drawn into a discussion about sex, and suggests that Holden should be psychoanalyzed.**
 * **Holden gets offended, and asks if Carl's father, who is a psychoanalyst, ever did any analysis on him. Luce dodges the question.**
 * **Becoming annoyed, Luce pays for his drink and leaves.**